Guildhall Questions: Gary Crosby and Scott Stroman answer

Joe Harriott, Harry Beckett, Shake Keane and the Caribbean Jazz Influence on Tuesday 29 June will feature the Guildhall Big Band, directed by Scott Stroman, exploring the legacies of Jamaican-born alto saxophonist Joe Harriott, St Vincent-born trumpeter Shake Keane and Barbadian trumpeter Harry Beckett.

Before this concert there will also be a symposium chaired by University of Liverpool professor Catherine Tackley and featuring an expert panel discussing the influence of Caribbean jazz musicians on the British jazz scene past, present and future.

In this Q&A, Gary and Scott tell us how this event came about, the significance of the repertoire being performed, and the magic of live gigs.

Have you two worked together before?

Gary Crosby (GC): Yes, Mr. Stroman has given masterclasses and coached some of the composers and MDs from the Nu Civilisation Orchestra (which is actually playing a Joe Harriott concert in July). We've always been friendly with each other, and myself and Steve Williamson tend to call him Mr. Stroman as a mark of respect. We’re from the jazz community – so whether we work together or not, we are citizens of the jazz world!

Can you tell us a bit about Tuesday's event? Why did it feel important to put on this symposium and concert?

Scott Stroman (SS): We want to further acknowledge the input from these musicians who came from the Caribbean and, in particular, we've zeroed in on Joe Harriott, Harry Beckett and Shake Keane. This is part of a wider initiative that we're all taking part in, to build more about British Black jazz into Guildhall’s programme.

Jazz programmes are fundamentally based on the Black jazz tradition, if I can call it that, but mostly from the US. And yet there's this incredibly important stream that I discovered when I came to this country, and it's time that we made it a much more fundamental part of what we're doing here. So that's the starting point – the kind of logical starting point. But the emotional starting point is this wonderful music! We want people to understand and learn from it, and that includes myself.

GC: I hope this is the beginning of regular discussions and meetings like this. I know that that desire to answer these questions or at least bring this topic up is there amongst good people.

Do you think that the impact and legacies of Harriott, Beckett and Keane deserve more recognition?

GC: A lot of musicians two generations ago were influenced by them. There's been this blend and this interaction going on since the Southern Syncopated Orchestra came here in the early 1900s, and what Guildhall is doing is just highlighting it – and highlighting other types of jazz musicians that have contributed. So I’m just honoured to be asked to be part of it.

SS: This whole idea came out of a discussion I was having with Gary, when I was doing one of those workshops that he described, about the legacy of older Black musicians in England with younger Black musicians in England. He was saying to me that a lot of the younger players that he was working with didn't really know about some of these older players. So that’s when I thought, wow, this is something we should be addressing.

The Guildhall African Caribbean Society have since become involved with the event, which is fantastic. This society is a relatively new initiative, so we thought let's celebrate that and get them on board.

There’s a stellar line up of guests alongside Gary performing in the concert, including Steve Williamson and Martin Hathaway on saxophones and Gabriel Garrick on trumpet. Can you tell us a bit about the repertoire that they will be performing?

SS: Well, the reason that we specifically have Gary and Steve Williamson is because they were key figures at a very important time between the two generations. When the Jazz Warriors started, several members of the Warriors were students at Guildhall School, so we had three or four young Black musicians who became part of the Jazz Warriors there right at the beginning. And Steve in particular took on the mantle of Joe Harriott with various other ensembles later on.

So what we're trying to do in this concert is trace the legacy a little bit by playing some material that was written specifically for the Warriors. And they played lots of Harry Beckett's music. Beckett at that moment in time was the senior figure, I suppose – right Gary?

GC: That's it. For all of us musicians from that scene he was our artistic leader. Somebody that I looked up to and still do.  

SS: What I’ve learned is that Joe Harriott’s playing infected the people he played with. And the same with Shake Keane and Harry Beckett – they were both booked for everybody's big band, everyone wanted these guys! It was because they were great soloists, but also because they played in a slightly different way, and they affected the playing of people around them. There's a certain joie de vivre about the way they played. And Harriott’s music has a lot of freedom, a lot of vibe – a free, improvising vibe – which means that pieces can be as long or as short as you want to make them.

We’ll be playing Ellington arrangements by Stan Tracey: In a Sentimental Mood, which Gary is going to be featured on and which is also one of the great features for Joe Harriott. We have pieces written by Harry Beckett for the Jazz Warriors, and arrangements of Harriott’s tunes written by the famous bandleader Michael Garrick for his own band, thereby elevating them to a kind of higher status. We’re delighted his son, Gabriel Garrick, will be featuring as a soloist in that part of the concert.

Gary, what are you most looking forward to about the concert, and what is your main role in this project?

GC: I'm looking forward to being the bassist on the great Stan Tracey arrangement of In a Sentimental Mood. My other role is to support the Guildhall in this wonderful initiative. I hope my presence there helps in this noble endeavour.

I believe that British jazz, as Scott has rightly said, has also been an exercise in integration. As you grow older, you begin to see exactly what was happening at the time as opposed to youthful angst or youthful misinterpretation. I had a wonderful time 10 or 15 years ago where Mr. Goode [Coleridge Goode] would have these parties at his house. And the whole of the last of that Caribbean generation would always be at that party. There would always be a time towards the end of the evening where five or six of them would get together, and I would get to hear the truth as we saw it. None of them disliked the British Jazz scene – they actually all saw it as a benefit to them, personally and artistically. Yeah, there were issues. But they tended to focus on the positives, and on what could be, in the future. So I learned a lot.

I'm just pleased that I came across these people – they've enriched our lives, and I’ve been very fortunate in meeting people like Russ Henderson, Coleridge Goode and Harry Beckett. My uncle was part of that world, so he had mentioned these names quite a lot. But we could also have learned so much more from them….

SS: Well, Gary, I have so much respect for you, because you spent your whole career trying to put that right. When I first came down to one of your sessions, it reminded me of when I was in the room with great players, and you kind of suck it up just by being in their presence.

GC: My uncle made me aware of certain things, of how the jazz community has developed not just in Jamaica, but also here. And the kind of separation that's been set up by people who are more interested in politics than art has been really damaging. If I follow my uncle's view of it, he said to me that if it wasn't for people like Peter King and Val Wilmer, they wouldn’t have stayed in England. He made me realise that people who were interested in music may have issues – you know, social issues, or political issues, or racial issues – but that anybody that engages with this music must be also engaging in some type of love. Because there's no damn money in it! And it’s hard to learn, and hard to find out about. You must be able to love. That's what I got from those older guys.

SS: It couldn't say it any better, Gary. If we sit there in rehearsals all afternoon, and all we do is listen to you say that, then everybody's come away richer. And that's the way it's been with our other guests, too. We play, and then we talk about it. We get into conversations. We share with each other, and music becomes a vehicle but, in fact, there's an even greater thing going on.

GC: Yes, that's true. And I suppose that’s the great thing about this great art form. It's free from language – I can go to any part of the world and start playing the blues. And when we start speaking, it's all so free from preconceptions about the other person – it is purely about the art form. I honestly believe that jazz and art can tame the beast in humankind, and that art is a part of the upliftment of men. (I'm getting to be spiritual here!)

There’s not been much of a chance to perform to in-person audiences over the past year, and both this symposium and concert will have a small internal audience of Guildhall staff and students. Are you looking forward to having a live audience back in the hall?

SS: Absolutely. The first live audiences that we've had at all have recently been for some students’ recitals. And wow, it's amazing – amazing to hear sound around you, instead of sound coming out of a speaker in front of you. I'm totally excited about playing live, and especially this music. Okay, it sounds great on record, but it doesn't do what it does live. There's so much freedom in the way this music is played. There's so much risk in it, and it’s not designed to have a pre-packaged outcome – it’s designed to be work in progress. And that's what you need with an audience: freedom.

GC: And live music is creating magic. Instant magic. Whereas on the record, yes, magic is created. But it's frozen – in time and in your speakers. Whereas in a club, anything can happen. And if it's good, it can lift your spirit. And if it's bad, it can be put down on the floor! But I suppose that's the excitement, isn't it? Being in the moment.

Finally, what would be your top tips for budding young jazz musicians?

GC: After being instructed by both Mr. Stroman and Colin Towns and a few others. just listen to Duke Ellington! Listen to Ellington and, sooner or later, you’ll get there.

Joe Harriott, Harry Beckett, Shake Keane and the Caribbean Jazz Influence will be live-streamed via Guildhall School's website on Tuesday 29 June 2021 at 5pm (symposium) and 8pm (concert). Watch online for free.